Re: FireflySeason2.com

Hello Firefly fans.
I was not planning on making my formal introduction to the community this early in the project, but alas, the speed of the Net and the vigor of the Browncoats has taken me quite by surprise.
My name is Ace Underhill and I have worked in the entertainment industry for over 10 years. Specifically, with Brilliant Screen and Cine Support International. Of course I've seen "Lord of the Rings" AND "Fletch", and yes, I still get ribbed about my name when I hand over my credit card
at restaurants. Those of you burdened with an overabundance of schoolin' can easily verify this is not a pseudonym.

My name is real and so is my email address, and I abhor ungrounded accusations. Since the start of this project I have been in contact with various members of this community, through email, phone,
and in person. For the most part Browncoats are incredible people, HOWEVER, I am greatly disappointed that my professional email was posted publicly on the Net. Not only have I now been exposed to spam trolls, but the email box that I depend on for important business communications has been tainted and inundated with fanmail.

IMPORTANT: I'm asking those that posted my email and/or personal phone to please edit your posts ASAP. (thanks to those that did already)
There is a valid email address on the FFS2 website that is to be used for this project. Business phone numbers are freely available on the web anyway, I just ask the Browncoats to please not use them at this time as we need the lines clear for our other projects and clients.

I have a few more items to clarify before I move onto the project status. First, we are NOT Universal, or Fox. Some people saw the webmaster address and assumed that we were. Most people don't know this, but production companies routinely rent production space on the big studio lots. And when you're there, you share an address. Second, the FFS2 site is hosted on a shared server, which means other sites, not connected to ours, live in the same place. I was told that a particularly sleuthy person did a reverse IP lookup to find our ICANN registry. (Here's a case of just enough information to be harmful.) What this person didn't know, or failed to mention, is that our ISP owns the IP block, not us, and they reuse them from client to client. Most
of the time the client (us) does not update the ICANN registry, thus it displays outdated information from a previous user of that IP. (If none of the above made sense, don't fret, it's for techies and took me a spell to sort it out too.)

On to the shiny stuff...
In the last 4 hours I've been asked about 759 times; "so what the heck are you trying to do?". Well, our mission is straightforward, but difficult:
We intend to license the Firefly Intellectual Property from Fox, produce the show on our dime, and sell to the highest bidder.

[sarcastically] "Whew, the numinous secret that men sought to vilify and digitally mame for is finally out!"

I may as well answer a few other questions before they arise and perhaps reduce the size of my inbox tomorrow...

Q: Is this some sort of scam, I mean, you're sure asking for alot of sensitive personal information on your survey.
A: No. In fact, none of the fields, not even your email address, is required to submit. In that regards, if some kind of scam could be had by learning how many Hi-Def TVs are in your zip code, I'd love to know. Joking aside, this information is important in defining the direction of FFS2. But submit at your own risk and peril! If the information about you going to see "Serenity" got into the wrong hands... oh the humanity!

Q: Why are you asking for money?
A: We're not, you're confused. The cost of this project comes from our own bankroll, not the fans. There was a site, BrowncoatsRiseAgain.com that was accepting donations for a short period of time, but refunded everyone's money. I met with the organizers of that site a few days ago. Andrew and Ty are both standup guys, and great fans. I was so impressed by their operation and fervor that I will be bringing them onboard with FFS2. Another great fan that I've been in contact with is Jeremy from DoneTheImpossible.com and I've been keeping him close to this project as well. I never asked him to be a "cheerleader" but I appreciate his efforts at trying to maintain a semblance of calm and order here until I could reply.

Q: Will Joss be involved?
A: The 'Verse without it's creator? Please, let's not be absurd. But Joss is very busy at the moment. We are taking care of all the mundane tasks and legwork that is required to untangle the legal issues to save Joss from any undue headaches. After all, it's really tough to be creative when you're surrounded by expensive lawyers.

Q: Will anyone from Season 1 or "Serenity" be involved?
A: We are in contact with many of the original cast and crew, but that's all that I'm allowed to say at this time. Official notices will be posted on the site as they are cleared.

Q: Will the timeline of Season 2 take place before or after the events in "Serenity"?
A: That's for Joss and the creative folk to decide, I'm just the guy with the checkbook.

Q: Why do people flame you and your cause when it's obvious you're just trying to give them something they want?
A: That's a tough psychological question that I'm not qualified to answer. Perhaps they really care about their dream and too many people have "cried-wolf" in the past.


I'm done for tonight. It's impossible to please everybody... But I'll keep flying, and that's enough. Those with the same dream are welcome aboard.

Well, here I am,

Ace Underhill

I admire your dedication and abhor your defensiveness. I hope you are on the level and if you are will become your biggest supporter.

Sell me, Ace.

It shouldn't be difficult. I have spent thousands of dollars on Firefly and Serenity related endeavors/merchandise/cons.

I am easy.

Sell me on why you have the answer.

I'm waiting.

This is, quite simply, bullsh*t.

The issue at hand is the contact information for YOUR DOMAIN NAME which YOU REGISTERED, and it all purports to be Universal.

The client inputs whatever they want for contact information when they are registering a domain. It doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

Or are you now suddenly claiming that Universal previously owned "fireflyseason2.com" and transferred it to you and everyone -- you, them, and the registrar -- somehow forgot to remove their contact information?

Happy to hear it's not a pseudonym. Sorry to suggest otherwise. Again, this thread is now linked at the top and bottom of the previous thread.

And, all that hullabaloo said, I appreciate your gracious response. We got a little hot in that thread. For that, I just expressed my regrets in private chat. I was rougher than I ought to have been at junctures -- though I tried to keep it on the facts and my concerns about them, however obsessively.

That said, b!X's follow-up questions about ICANN do bear answering. Are we to understand you're renting space at Uni? You can understand our concerns about this looking misleading, particularly given recent fund-soliciting drama and the fact that you were building a database. (And yes, I know you can't do much with info about HDTVs. Nevertheless.)

And, having friends from the region, I'm dying to know more about your relationship with Costa Rica. How'd you come upon it being such a great place to shoot (which it is)?

Ace, it's good to hear from you. From the heated discussion, I can understand your defensiveness, though I agree with TLAcook, some of it it sounds a bit on the bitter side. I suggest an edit or two. :) I also want to mirror Hudson and b!X, the registration information needs additional clarification.

That being said, I'm still ready and willing to support this cause, I think your motivations are sound, and I wish you the best of luck.

Greetings!

I only speak for myself, certainly, but good on you for posting.



Fans of just about every variety can be pretty wild. Most aren't as pretty as we are, however. Well, at least, not as pretty as I am, anyway.




You just got famous! Don't let it go to your head. However, I feel your pain, if only a little. It sucks to have an e-mail revealed.



Yes, I can vouch that this does happen. I am still listed as a contact for an assigned block of IP that I have not actually had assigned to me for ... well, just shy of a decade, in fact. The information in the ARIN database for who is assigned what IP addresses contains lots of inaccurate information.

However, it sounds like the domain name itself is registered with information that doesn't appear accurate. That's a different issue, but one that can be much easier to remedy. Additionally, the reverse DNS information is updated by the ISP locally, whereas the ARIN database is managed by a central registry.

You're correct that the former is a technical issue, but the latter is causing some confusion. I've probably not helped by talking about the former.




That sure sounds like it could be very good news.




That's great to hear! They did a great job on that site. First thing, get them to do your website. No offense intended. Only, the sound that plays every time their site loads is a little annoying.



In some cases it is a mixture of perceived partial anonymity and strong emotional involvement. Try not to take it personally, but it's probably a reaction to something, like fear of getting hurt over something that is emotionally important. If you've watched the show, which it seems from your use of slang from the show, we all keep flying because we've got some love for this, and that mean it can hurt us.




I used to work for an ISP doing various jobs including technical support and the abuse alias, among other things, and it's very draining and difficult. I applaud you for your post, and believe you have done good in responding in a mostly non-defensive way.

I wish you great luck in your endeavours. I hope that you are as well-intentioned and caring about the project as you seem to me to be. I also hope very much that whatever is best for the future of Firefly happens, whether that is your project or not. But, if it's you, I look forward to spending my money on it if it is a good thing.

Do good by it, and the community will do good by you, I'm sure. There's a huge amount of good will and love ready for this, and there's hope for the future.

But, I personally beg you, please don't screw it up if you can help it. ;)

Thanks!

I've edited some of my post above. I was fairly hot when I read it and apologize if some of my sarcasm came off too strong. I've now since chatted with most of the people that replied and I think we all feel alot better now that's it all cleared up. I understand that Browncoats have a huge emotional investment in their interest, and *new* ideas and people must walk a careful line. Thank you all for being so concerned with the welfare of this project. Keep flying...

I'll be taking this seriously the minute that there is an indication from Joss that this is a serious venture and something he'd consider doing. Until then, all the buzz in the 'verse won't make much difference.

This leads me to ask one more follow-up question: Why -- if you weren't ready for public discussion of the finer details of your work, such as who you were -- did you publicly launch your site? Solicit reader info? Post link buttons for blogs to re-post on their sites?

Got ahead of ourselves Hud. In the old days of the Net it took a good 6 months to build any significant traffic to a site. Didn't expect this much all at once.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I'm less inclined to believe "scam" than I was several hours ago, but that I'm still not convinced that this isn't "in over his head" as an explanation instead.

Here's the bit (well, the one I'll focus on for the moment) I need explained to me in that context:



What's the point in producing what amounts to a pilot in an attempt to convince someone to make a new series, when we already have what amounts to a half-season-long pilot/pitch right now, and clearly no one is interested in picking up a second season of it?

So have you actually contacted Joss Whedon to let him know what you are trying to do?

Yes, I have contacted Joss' management. I have not received a reply from Joss personally yet, but now is not the time for him to be bothered with this. The obstacle lies with Fox, not with Joss. Once the rights are cleared, everything will fall into place. If Joss declines to be involved once the rights are secured, I will abandon the project.

Where do you plan on getting that sort of money? That is your main obstacle, really.

Glad you asked, it gives me a chance to also answer a question someone else brought up earlier about other companies I've been involved with. I've always believed strongly that a healthy income stream comes from financial diversity, thus, in addition to TV/Film projects, I've invested in or been a part of many different projects over the years. Two of these projects, which another poster mentioned, were an online dating service and a gaming company. Basically, the only profitable .com sectors for quite a while at the turn of the millennium. Need I say more?

That is, indeed, key. If a company can raise funding to both secure the rights from Fox and produce a new series, wonderful, but otherwise this public a presence is just false hope for fans who by and large have been messed around for the past 3 years.

Well I would disagree with Joss not being bothered with this. I don't claim to know the inner workings of his mind but I would imagine that the show's creator would like to know what exactly was going on from the very start. And I would imagine the fandom would like to know that Joss knows what exactly is going on too. And whether he approves or not.

And would you really abandon the project if Joss didn't approve after you spent X amount of dollars and man hours in getting the rights?

And also what about Universal and Serenity? Do they factor at all into your proposals?

My posting of this story at another forum of fans.

I do not know if Joss approves or not. I do know, from his interviews and discussing with those involved in BDS and BDM, that he has not forgotten his baby. I'm sure with all the posting going on and my inquiry to his agent's office that he is not entirely in the dark. Perhaps he is too busy right now, or maybe he is waiting to see if I manage to make something happen.

And yes, even if after spending X amount of capital and time securing the rights if Joss wants no part, then I will drop it. What's the point if he's got no input for his own creation?

Any prior contractual agreements between Universal and Fox would have to be abided by. I wouldn't dare step in the way of BDM 2 & 3. However, I truly believe a succesful return of the show would ensure that BDM 2 & 3 happen.

We will be scheduling a Q&A chat soon at http://www.stardotdesign.com/ so I ask anyone with further questions, please save them up so we have something to chat about. ;-)

Just one other thing.

You get the Firefly Intellectual Property rights, Joss doesn't approve, you in turn abandon the project for a Firefly season 2. Does this also mean you would abandon any plans for prospective merchandising as well? For example: novels, comic books, action figures, t-shirts etc.

Simon, they could exclusively license the new TV show rights, but leave other merch in Fox's hands.

We are not pursuing merchandising or ancillary rights. Just the permission to create a continuation of the show on our bankroll. However, I have plenty of ideas for those items if they want to listen.

If you are on the level with this then I am happy, if you're not then you are a bad man for hurting so many of us browncoated geeks and there is a special kind of hell for people like that.

B

A girl goes to sleep and look what she wakes up to.

I for one am willing to give the very gracious Ace the benefit of the doubt. If we had the money, a production company to call our very own, and the resources wouldn't each and every one of us want to do the same damn thing? I know I would.

A lot of things are running through my mind right now so I don't exactly know where to start, but I'll just say this. I hope it works.

By the way, here's something I bet you didn't know about Browncoats: Browncoats = Ruthless!

To be honest, I'd feel more comfortable if I knew that Joss was aware of this. But again, I wait. I hope. I add my name to the FFS2 listing.

I understand the misgivings, but I don't want to bash Ace for trying. If it doesn't work out, at least he tried.

Chey

I'm skeptical, but not because Ace seems to be particularly decietful or untrustworthy. He certainly appears to know the business and has refuted his detractors with fair success. And my bullsh*t detector is usually pretty good; at the very least, I believe he is being honest about making an attempt to get a season two project off the ground.

However, this is the Internet. Rumor and misinformation are so pervasive that it can make the courts of Byzantium look downright transparent. Despite the fact that all of this might very well be on the level, I will pin absolutely none of my hopes on it until I hear something official from Joss Whedon. He is now and has always been good about letting his fans know what's up, and a second season of Firefly will be no different. If and when there is genuine progress, whether from Ace's organization or some other, we'll hear from Joss.

And finally, I agree with those who've stated that releasing this information, if it is indeed on the level, was premature. It smacks of duplicity, because major industry players don't make a peep until deals are inked and contracts signed. Even if Ace's intentions are honest, posting them here was hasty and ill-considered. Official web sites and press releases are how one starts a successful viral advertising campaign; fan forums are generally too volatile and rumor-prone to prove initially useful (though they are certainly excellent sources for word-of-mouth advertising after offical announcements have been made).

Anyway, I hope for a second season (and a third, fourth, and fifth) of Firefly just like everyone else. If Ace comes through I'll be the first to buy him a beer and shake his hand. But until I hear something straight from the horse's mouth, my hopes are staying firmly grounded.


G

I think you're being grilled a bit here, but I hope that if the project did not work out that the rights would not be tied up so that no one else could do something. I would hope that rights secured would not be rights sequestered and held without active use.

That's one thing that worries me about any company trying to make a go of it, is that there not be an increased number of obsticles to the rights by a multiplication of the claims on them. So many times options, or whatever they are called in this case, are made and then held for some period of time with nothing done to make a reality out of them. At least that's how it seems to me it can sometimes go.

That, to me, seems like a healthy attitude, but not hearing something from Joss doesn't make it not exist. Joss shouldn't become another Lee, if you've read The Killer Angels. I'd prefer to have a more healthy belief in Joss and love for Firefly than a blind one.

But, all in all, being circumspect about this is a good idea, and should be generally encouraged by everyone with neither unreasonable hope pinning nor unreasonable flaming. But, to each their own, I suppose.



I think his posting here was actually an attempt at rumour control, in response to something that was already getting out of hand.

I think it's a little bit of a strawman and getting away from this issue, but do "official" and "viral" ever go together? What press release was involved in the "R. Tam Sessions" for example? Perhaps I missed it.

There's one other issue, and that's the fact that what's being contemplated is something that gives FOX the right of first refusal.

Hypothetical: FOX licenses Firefly so that the two episodes can be produced. They up and go, "Yeah okay, let's do this."

Anyone remember the reports from last year's Comicon of Joss saying that while he'd be willing to bring the Verse back to TV, he'd never work with FOX again?

The real problem is finding a network willing to pay for another few episodes, or another pilot.

Why? After Firefly was yanked from the air, Joss took it to just about every major network himself, if anybody remembers -- and they all passed. Of course, maybe it's second time lucky.